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dparker
Forum Admin
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2025 : 16:53:45
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Apparently 7A Region 4 has been settled through the tiebreakers.
1 - Sparkman
2 - James Clemens
3 - Austin
4 - Florence
That is according to the AHSAA.
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org |
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JEREF
Forum Member<
55 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 09:29:58
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I don't understand that at all. They're all 5-2 in region; so, Tie Breaker #1 & Tie Breaker #2 are out.
Sparkman - Florence W, JC L, Austin L
Florence - JC W, Sparkman L, Austin L
Austin - Sparkman W, Florence W, JC L
JC - Austin W, Sparkman W, Florence L
Tie Breaker #3b (Beat all others) - Didn't happen, out by default
Tie Breaker #3c (Beat #1 team) - Out by lack of #1 team
Tie Breaker #3d (Beat #2 team) - Out by lack of #2 team
Tie Breaker #3e (Beat #3 team) - Out by lack of #3 team
Tie Breaker #3f (Beat #4 team) - Out by lack of #4 team
Tie Breaker #3g (Beat #5 team) - Huntsville has a 4-3 region record and are undoubtedly the #5 team.
Apply (c) using percentage against the No. 5 ranked team. If two teams tie for the highest winning percentage ahead of all the other teams involved in the tie, the team that defeated the other in their required regular season game will be placed ahead of all tied teams. Then, if necessary, apply (a) or (b) as applicable for the remaining teams in the tie.
Too early in the morning after watching an 18 inning World Series game. I just deleted what I originally put, redid it, and it's still confusing...but I got the same result.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Edited by - JEREF on 10/28/2025 10:57:38 |
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Chsreddevil
Forum Member<
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 09:42:49
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| You cannot lose a tiebreaker, only win it. So we get to who beat Huntsville. Austin lost so they are removed. Then it is who beat Bob Jones. JC lost, so Sparkman and Florence are left. Sparkman beat Florence so Sparkman is the #1. Then the Tiebreakers reset. JC then beat the 1 seed so they are #2. Austin beat Florence H2H so Austin is the #3. This leaves Florence at the #4. Thus, Sparkman 1, JC 2, Austin 3, Florence 4. |
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Patriots70
Forum Member<
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 09:49:51
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Chsreddevil is correct about not losing a tiebreaker. The problem comes with how the tiebreakers are interpreted. What he said is what the AHSAA eventually said.
The way I always interpreted it was that if a single team can't directly win a tiebreaker themselves or via H2H over one other tied team, then you move on. That is not the case according to the AHSAA. None of the three teams "won" that specific tiebreaker (tiebreaker G), they tied for the tiebreaker, so they just pulled those three out and kept going.
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 09:51:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Chsreddevil
You cannot lose a tiebreaker, only win it.
This is the issue and why I agreed with Jon's interpretation. By your own post, Austin loses the tiebreaker that no one wins. The AHSAA needs more clarity on this. You can't lose a tiebreaker has always been the rule.
Twitter (Or X, whatever) @TheMUBM |
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Chsreddevil
Forum Member<
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 10:17:07
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| They don't lose the tiebreaker, the others win it. That is why Austin finished third, because after Sparkman was decided, JC and Austin both beat them, but JC beat Austin. Then, Austin won H2H vs. Florence. It is actually less complicated than it looks. |
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 10:32:04
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That isn't "winning" a tiebreaker. Only one team can "win" a tiebreaker.
Twitter (Or X, whatever) @TheMUBM |
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 10:41:54
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And to be clear, I am not saying you or the AHSAA is wrong. It is just not how I have ever understood it and it appears a lot of people across many platforms thought it the same way as myself. I am fine with it. It is good to know going forward.
Twitter (Or X, whatever) @TheMUBM |
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Patriots70
Forum Member<
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 10:50:10
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quote:
Originally posted by TheMUBM
That isn't "winning" a tiebreaker. Only one team can "win" a tiebreaker.
Twitter (Or X, whatever) @TheMUBM
That's the way I always interpreted it, with H2H being the only "tie within the tie" that can be broken to pick the "one winner" because it's a simple solution.
It seems like the AHSAA is saying - you don't have to win a tiebreaker, you just have to "stay in it". Doing it this way means a tiebreaker doesn't have to have a single winner, the winner is just the one that survives the rounds of tiebreakers.
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Edited by - Patriots70 on 10/28/2025 10:52:37 |
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CCHS07
Forum Member<
26 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 15:12:32
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What an atrocious interpretation of plain english by the AHSAA. Legal must be losing their minds right now.
"Apply (c) using percentage against the No. 5 ranked team.
If two teams tie for the highest winning percentage ahead of all the other teams involved in the tie, the team that defeated the other in their required regular season game will be placed ahead of all tied teams. Then, if necessary, apply (a) or (b) as applicable for the remaining teams in the tie"
It appears there is an "If, then" caveat and the AHSAA is proceeding with the "then" result despite the "If" never taking place. It says "two" teams... not "three" and not "if some teams tie for the highest percentage ahead of other teams in the tie".
Amazing that this interpretation renders Sparkman number 1 when Sparkman was the only team that could not win #1 under the interpretation we all had (and that was actually written down). It also happens to reward the team with the fewest victories, most losses and only one that does not have a winning record at the moment. I guess we should prepare ourselves in future 4-way tie situations for any possible coin flip that does not result in an odd coin, like 2 heads and 2 tails. The AHSAA could arbitrarily decide to pick heads or tails and then apply H2H to those two teams to decide a winner. Maybe a 5-way tie results in 3 heads and 2 tails...who is odd in that situation? The odd number of teams that landed on heads or the two teams not in the majority that landed on tails?
For the life of me I don't see how you can logically proceed to tiebreaker H when tiebreaker G didn't render 1 or 2 (and therefore 1) team above all the others in the tie, which would actually break the tie... particularly when Austin, the team left out, beat the number 6 team in tiebreaker G and 2 of the other teams they were tied with. Those involved settling this tie would be better off using an "eye test" from a blind man than under this reading of tiebreakers. Absolute tripe. |
Edited by - CCHS07 on 10/28/2025 15:13:59 |
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spartan91
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
236 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 17:54:46
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The logical tiebreaker would eliminate Sparkman and Florence since they are 1-2 in the head to head matchups among the tied teams and then James Clemens would win the region since they beat Austin head to head.
But since when has the AHSAA used logic. What team was the situation many years ago that involved a team knocking themselves out of the playoffs if they won their final game? |
Edited by - spartan91 on 10/29/2025 18:59:15 |
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vvala45
Forum Member<
30 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2025 : 22:06:49
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| Maybe we should let them all in and sing Kumbaya |
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JEREF
Forum Member<
55 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2025 : 11:36:09
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quote:
Originally posted by spartan91
The logical tiebreaker would eliminate Sparkman and Florence since they are 1-2 in the head to head matchups among the tied teams and then James Clemens would win the region since they beat Austin head to head.
But since when has the AHSAA used logic. What team was in the situation many years ago that involved knocking themselves out of the playoffs if they won their final game?
EXACTLY what led me to reply. The way they're doing this is counter-intuitive to any real sports fan who is into stats/standings/etc. |
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GoldenTiger86
Forum Member<
56 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2025 : 10:41:15
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quote:
Originally posted by spartan91
The logical tiebreaker would eliminate Sparkman and Florence since they are 1-2 in the head to head matchups among the tied teams and then James Clemens would win the region since they beat Austin head to head.
But since when has the AHSAA used logic. What team was the situation many years ago that involved a team knocking themselves out of the playoffs if they won their final game?
If I remember right, it was Crossville, and as I recall, Dan Washburn (or maybe it was Savarese) even made the statement that if Crossville lost, there would be a "heavy investigation" of the game itself. Basically putting Crossville in a no-win spot: win the game and you're out, lose and probably have it revoked because the AHSAA will find something to say "you did this on purpose." |
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OLCoach2014
Starting Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2025 : 10:25:27
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| What do you think the AHSAA will do with 7A Region 4 after last night's games? A perfect storm for Florence last night. Saturday's playoff meeting will be interesting for sure! |
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Patriots70
Forum Member<
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2025 : 10:57:36
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We played James Clemens last night, and they seem to be kinda quiet because they are currently at #2 with the AHSAA's take on things. I don't know if Austin/Florence will fight it or not. Seems to be all about avoiding that trip to Mobile if at all possible. Had they won, they would have had the non-region wins to be first and may would have fought it more.
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CCHS07
Forum Member<
26 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2025 : 11:48:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Patriots70
We played James Clemens last night, and they seem to be kinda quiet because they are currently at #2 with the AHSAA's take on things. I don't know if Austin/Florence will fight it or not. Seems to be all about avoiding that trip to Mobile if at all possible. Had they won, they would have had the non-region wins to be first and may would have fought it more.
I imagine JC won't say a word with the results last night the way they were. Florence should fight it for sure.
FWIW, my estimation is that if we were using the tiebreaker that counts wins of defeated opponents like we thought we would, it would have ended as:
Florence - 5
Austin - 2
JC - 0
Sparkman - 0
Florence would have won the region, Austin and Sparkman both beat Florence, but Austin has H2H over Sparkman, and JC comes in 4th. All four teams are thus playing a different opponent depending on which rules interpretation stands, and all are playing in different locations as a result.
I suppose the only thing that can be said about this is that fortunately, all of the teams in this tiebreaker are going to the playoffs regardless. I cant imagine being a player and potentially having your career ended b/c of this nonsense. |
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Patriots70
Forum Member<
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2025 : 13:30:31
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quote:
Originally posted by CCHS07
quote:
Originally posted by Patriots70
We played James Clemens last night, and they seem to be kinda quiet because they are currently at #2 with the AHSAA's take on things. I don't know if Austin/Florence will fight it or not. Seems to be all about avoiding that trip to Mobile if at all possible. Had they won, they would have had the non-region wins to be first and may would have fought it more.
I imagine JC won't say a word with the results last night the way they were. Florence should fight it for sure.
FWIW, my estimation is that if we were using the tiebreaker that counts wins of defeated opponents like we thought we would, it would have ended as:
Florence - 5
Austin - 2
JC - 0
Sparkman - 0
Florence would have won the region, Austin and Sparkman both beat Florence, but Austin has H2H over Sparkman, and JC comes in 4th. All four teams are thus playing a different opponent depending on which rules interpretation stands, and all are playing in different locations as a result.
I suppose the only thing that can be said about this is that fortunately, all of the teams in this tiebreaker are going to the playoffs regardless. I cant imagine being a player and potentially having your career ended b/c of this nonsense.
Using the non-region tiebreaker, Florence would win, but then James Clemens would be second still because of tiebreaker B where they beat both Austin and Sparkman head-to-head. Then Austin beat Sparkman for third and Sparkman is fourth.
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CCHS07
Forum Member<
26 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2025 : 16:17:31
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| You?re right, I got ahead of myself there. |
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Patriots70
Forum Member<
29 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2025 : 11:01:38
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Well, that was interesting. During the bracket reveal show, they got to Florence in fourth place and Florence disagreed and called for a meeting to discuss it. The AHSAA just said they'd talk in the hallway real quick and about 15-20 minutes later came back and continued on with Florence as the four seed.
So their tiebreakers held and it's:
1. Sparkman
2. James Clemens
3. Austin
4. Florence
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dparker
Forum Admin
1526 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2025 : 11:21:11
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Hopefully that's the end of that.
Thanks to ALPreps.com for staying on top of this.
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org |
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7A Region 4
