Forums Home | Profile | Join | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 History of High School Football in Alabama
 General Discussion
 Could the Super 7 go to Super 8?
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

UNA2004
AHSFHS Researcher

63 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  14:26:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Per the Decatur Daily today a proposal has been given to the AHSAA to split 7A and allow all 32 schools to make the playoffs split into 16 team divisions based off the number of students. All because of the domination of 4 teams and 2 regions. What?s everyone?s thoughts on this?

From the Decatur Daily:

Tuscaloosa County High School football head coach Adam Winegarden plans to propose to the AHSAA that the Class 7A playoffs be split into two divisions with two state championships.

Winegarden?s proposal would keep the current region setup for 7A. Season scheduling would not change.

The change would come with all 32 schools in 7A advancing to the playoffs. The schools would split into two divisions based on enrollment.



Go Lions

Sloth Nationzz
AHSFHS Master Researcher

196 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  15:14:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seems very unnecessary, not a fan.
Go to Top of Page

Fat_Coach
Forum Member

53 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  17:11:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like Florida, or the NCAA with FCS/FBS and then everything else is all one tournament.

I don't hate it so much that I would fight it because there is some logic in play. How can T-County with say, IDK, 11 hundo compete with Hoover's 22 hundred? It's like a 6A competing against a 2A.

However, it also sounds like "everyone gets a trophy." I'm probably against it, but I understand why it's proposed. Mississippi used to have "The Big Eight." There was the 8 largest schools in one division and then everyone else. But that was lifetimes ago.
Go to Top of Page

mcslate
AHSFHS Master Researcher

190 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  19:04:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Enrollment disparity isn't the problem with Region 4. The teams just aren't that good. Austin won it but would have been a 4th seed at best in 6A Region 8. Hartselle and Decatur beat them.
Go to Top of Page

GiglnTiger
AHSFHS Master Researcher

175 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  19:55:46  Show Profile  Visit GiglnTiger's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There?s not enough teams in 7A to make the split, IMO.

Jeremy Wortham

_____________

Randolph County Tigers

2003 Class 2A State Champions

2017 Class 3A State Runner-Ups, 1998 Class 3A State Runner-Ups,
1984 Class 3A State Runner-Ups, 1979 Class 2A State Runner-Ups
Go to Top of Page

dparker
Forum Admin

1310 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  21:34:57  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Without forking out money I cannot read the article. How do they propose to seed the teams for a playoff? You can't divide the state into south and north because there may not be 16 teams in each half? That would mean the Mobile teams could travel to Huntsville or Florence the first tow or three rounds.

I can't seem to find a way to seed the teams myself. Maybe someone can copy and paste the article for me or email me a copy at dparker@ahsfhs.org

It is just crazy enough that the AHSAA may look at it. But I do not see how that would work. But looking at the enrollment numbers the biggest schools do have the best records for the most part in 7A.

Of the 16 smaller schools only two (Florence and Fairhope) won 8 games in the regular season. Six had a winning record. Hewitt-Trussville was by far the best of the bottom 16 schools.




David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
Go to Top of Page

mcslate
AHSFHS Master Researcher

190 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  23:17:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dparker

Without forking out money I cannot read the article. How do they propose to seed the teams for a playoff? You can't divide the state into south and north because there may not be 16 teams in each half? That would mean the Mobile teams could travel to Huntsville or Florence the first tow or three rounds.

I can't seem to find a way to seed the teams myself. Maybe someone can copy and paste the article for me or email me a copy at dparker@ahsfhs.org

It is just crazy enough that the AHSAA may look at it. But I do not see how that would work. But looking at the enrollment numbers the biggest schools do have the best records for the most part in 7A.

Of the 16 smaller schools only two (Florence and Fairhope) won 8 games in the regular season. Six had a winning record. Hewitt-Trussville was by far the best of the bottom 16 schools.




David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org





All it has on it. Perkins is Austin coach.

"According to Perkins, Winegarden worked out a playoff format based on this season?s records. Austin drew a No. 1 seed by being the Region 4 champion.

?He had us playing Albertville in the first round,? Perkins said. ?In the second round, we had the Spain Park vs. Tuscaloosa County winner.?"
Go to Top of Page

cwak
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

1165 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2022 :  23:58:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had heard coach Winegarden was floating this idea around. Its not a bad idea of the AHSAA is determined to stick with enrollment only classification. 7A has not worked how it was envisioned instead of level-headed playing field it created more haves and have nots, and created competitive imbalances in the other classifications.
I've said it on here before its not enrollment disparity or private school recruiting its demographics and participation. I'll use this example again. Albertville is solidly a 7A school and that's not gonna change anytime soon. But they have sports participation numbers of 6A teams at best probably more like 5A numbers. With demographics, there is a direct correlation between the percentage of students who receive free and reduced luch assistance and sports participation and lower levels of competition. These are all generalities and there are exceptions to this but even in those instances schools in lo income areas with success have comparable participation numbers.
I say all that to say that something has to change with 7A if the AHSAA is going to keep it anything like it is.
Go to Top of Page

YoungBallCoach
Forum Member

32 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  06:41:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cwak

I had heard coach Winegarden was floating this idea around. Its not a bad idea of the AHSAA is determined to stick with enrollment only classification. 7A has not worked how it was envisioned instead of level-headed playing field it created more haves and have nots, and created competitive imbalances in the other classifications.
I've said it on here before its not enrollment disparity or private school recruiting its demographics and participation. I'll use this example again. Albertville is solidly a 7A school and that's not gonna change anytime soon. But they have sports participation numbers of 6A teams at best probably more like 5A numbers. With demographics, there is a direct correlation between the percentage of students who receive free and reduced luch assistance and sports participation and lower levels of competition. These are all generalities and there are exceptions to this but even in those instances schools in lo income areas with success have comparable participation numbers.
I say all that to say that something has to change with 7A if the AHSAA is going to keep it anything like it is.



Your points make a lot of sense. That was where I was going with my opinion. I know in Tennessee I am at a 5A school (we go up to 6A) with an enrollment of almost 1500, but we are inner-city and had 55 on our football roster this year. I went to and coached at schools in Alabama that had 45-60 on roster with enrollments below 500. Big issues we face are teens with full-time jobs, rides home from practice, money, admin support, parent support, general apathy (including both general laziness and going back to lack of parent support), etc. You name it, we face it.

Enrollment numbers aren't the real reasons behind teams being competitive or not, because I've seen it firsthand. It is usually due way more to demographics and socioeconomics. That and let's face it, parents will move to Hoover or Alabaster to have their kids play at Hoover and Thompson. They aren't moving to Albertville to play at Albertville (I was a Marshall County kid so I know ).
Go to Top of Page

robinsonakr
AHSFHS Researcher

92 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  07:51:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ive read where Louisiana has 2 different classifications called "Select" and "non-select"

Select means that you have either open enrollment or private. The divisions are based off total enrollment and size.

They can play each other in the regular season, but in the playoffs, they are split based on the above criteria.

I am sure there is more to it, but that is just a short definition of maybe what AHSAA could do with 7A
Go to Top of Page

robinsonakr
AHSFHS Researcher

92 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  07:55:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In this year's 7A, you have Auburn the biggest at 2131.70 and Florence the smallest at 1085.25. Thats a 1,046.45 difference.


I dont know how you could divide it up to make it equal with maybe 16 in a select and 16 in a non-select like my above message, but I am sure it could be done if this is what we are saying is the problem (enrollment).

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.ahsaa.com/Portals/0/PDF's/AHSAA/AHSAA/Re-Classification/2022-2024/2022-2024%20Classification.pdf?ver=0DtCm0opi6OvcUcAkdnr4g%3D%3D×tamp=1639497592551
Go to Top of Page

dparker
Forum Admin

1310 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  08:25:47  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The problem can not be solved. No matter how hard the AHSAA tries to make everything equal it can never be accomplished. This year with the help of "competitive balance" there is only one private school in the super seven. St. James will likely pay the price in two years by being moved up to 4A or higher until they are no longer competitive.

How is that fair? UMS-Wright is now a legit 3A school playing in 5A. I am not defending the private schools here just wondering how it is fair to keep moving schools higher until they are not competitive any longer.

NOTHING will make every team or school on an exact level playing field. NOTHING! They can keep trying but the cold hard facts of this world are that not everything has to be equal. I live in Foley and learned about 40 years ago that there was absolutely no way we would ever win a state championship in football. And I am OK with that fact.

It is true in college football too. No matter what they do there are a ton of schools who have no chance to win a national championship. No chance. Not everyone has to get a trophy. Isn't it enough to just compete and have fun playing sports? I guess not in today's society.

Thompson just won their fourth title in a row. They will be favored to win the next four likely. And I am OK with that.

Sorry. My rant for the day.






David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
Go to Top of Page

BamaJoe
AHSFHS Superstar Researcher

208 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  08:58:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dparker

The problem can not be solved. No matter how hard the AHSAA tries to make everything equal it can never be accomplished. This year with the help of "competitive balance" there is only one private school in the super seven. St. James will likely pay the price in two years by being moved up to 4A or higher until they are no longer competitive.

How is that fair? UMS-Wright is now a legit 3A school playing in 5A. I am not defending the private schools here just wondering how it is fair to keep moving schools higher until they are not competitive any longer.

NOTHING will make every team or school on an exact level playing field. NOTHING! They can keep trying but the cold hard facts of this world are that not everything has to be equal. I live in Foley and learned about 40 years ago that there was absolutely no way we would ever win a state championship in football. And I am OK with that fact.

It is true in college football too. No matter what they do there are a ton of schools who have no chance to win a national championship. No chance. Not everyone has to get a trophy. Isn't it enough to just compete and have fun playing sports? I guess not in today's society.

Thompson just won their fourth title in a row. They will be favored to win the next four likely. And I am OK with that.

Sorry. My rant for the day.






David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org


It is absolutely fair for them to be moved up until they are balanced within the competition unless the AHSAA does what they should do and creates a private school championship division. If they are not competitive for a couple of years they get moved back down. So eventually they will be back to where they are able to win championships. You can be competitive without winning championships.

If UMS-Wright goes out in the spring with a 5'8" 165lb right tackle and no running backs they can go get them. A regular 3A school can't. How is that fair? I'm sorry but I saw Madison Academy rolling through 2A and 3A like it was nothing with D1 kids at multiple positions in almost every sport to think that was fair doesn't make sense to me. Most 2A and 3A schools in my area are K-12 and you are taking what walks through the door. You don't have tryouts and you certainly don't cut anyone unless they it is a matter of their safety. Sorry if I offend but that's my opinion.

Go Eagles!
Go to Top of Page

dparker
Forum Admin

1310 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  10:30:52  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OK I am going to defend UMS-Wright for once. I know for a fact that almost every player on the UMS-Wright team was enrolled in the school in the 7th grade. Terry Curtis and his staff do not just run around Mobile and pick up players no matter what anyone thinks. It does not happen.

How many D1 players have come out of UMS-Wright in the past 20 years. Not many more than any other winning program.

So how do they win so much. They have a complete program dedicated to winning football games. They are very disciplined in everything they do. They have a great coaching staff. They are no different than Piedmont or Fyffe when it comes to winning. You win football games with a great coaching staff, not making mistakes and dedication by the administration, coaches, students, fans and players.

The problem is at most schools all these things are not easily attainable so they struggle to win consistently.

Madison Academy won three titles in a row almost ten years ago and since have just been another winning program. No offense to them or their fans intended at all. They have one of the best coaches in the state.

Let me ask this question. If Mark Freeman had gone to say... Spain Park or Oak Mountain in 2015 instead of Thompson would those schools have won the past four state championships. I absolutely believe so.

Thompson had won 18 games in the 8 seasons before he arrived. I knew the day he arrived he would win big time there. Did he go out recruiting upon his arrival? Mope. The athletes want to play for him in his program. He does not need to actively recruit. If he builds it they will come.

Second rant done.





David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
Go to Top of Page

dparker
Forum Admin

1310 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  11:11:08  Show Profile  Visit dparker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by robinsonakr

Ive read where Louisiana has 2 different classifications called "Select" and "non-select"

Select means that you have either open enrollment or private. The divisions are based off total enrollment and size.

They can play each other in the regular season, but in the playoffs, they are split based on the above criteria.

I am sure there is more to it, but that is just a short definition of maybe what AHSAA could do with 7A





Adam,
I contacted Hunter Bower with GeauxPreps in Louisiana to get his thoughts on what they are doing. They are a website similar to what we are doing at AHSFHS.org. We have had some communications over the years.

He sent me some articles on their playoff systems. The first thing is that Louisiana has about as many private, charter and magnet schools as they do public schools. It is almost even. He said they have been working through several changes over the past few years to make things more even for all the schools but so far nothing has worked out perfectly.

The "select" schools also include "Open Enrollment" schools. So they must have some rule allowing students to go to schools outside their district. Georgia also allows this. Alabama does not.

He also said that most people would prefer the schools just all be combined again. So it seems to be a work in progress even for them. He also said they had teams that won just 2-3 games making the playoffs which created a lot of blowouts in the first two rounds.

I will keep looking into what they are doing. It is kind of difficult to figure out not knowing much about the schools there.

Here are a couple of articles if anyone cares to read them from him.

https://geauxpreps.com/home/monumental-decision-lhsaa-executive-committee-votes-to-restructure-playoffs-for-various-sports/https://geauxpreps.com/home/lhsaa-executive-committee-hears-appeals-on-wednesday-in-quest-to-level-playing-fields/






David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
Go to Top of Page

robinsonakr
AHSFHS Researcher

92 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2022 :  11:27:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dparker

quote:
Originally posted by robinsonakr

Ive read where Louisiana has 2 different classifications called "Select" and "non-select"

Select means that you have either open enrollment or private. The divisions are based off total enrollment and size.

They can play each other in the regular season, but in the playoffs, they are split based on the above criteria.

I am sure there is more to it, but that is just a short definition of maybe what AHSAA could do with 7A





Adam,
I contacted Hunter Bower with GeauxPreps in Louisiana to get his thoughts on what they are doing. They are a website similar to what we are doing at AHSFHS.org. We have had some communications over the years.

He sent me some articles on their playoff systems. The first thing is that Louisiana has about as many private, charter and magnet schools as they do public schools. It is almost even. He said they have been working through several changes over the past few years to make things more even for all the schools but so far nothing has worked out perfectly.

The "select" schools also include "Open Enrollment" schools. So they must have some rule allowing students to go to schools outside their district. Georgia also allows this. Alabama does not.

He also said that most people would prefer the schools just all be combined again. So it seems to be a work in progress even for them. He also said they had teams that won just 2-3 games making the playoffs which created a lot of blowouts in the first two rounds.

I will keep looking into what they are doing. It is kind of difficult to figure out not knowing much about the schools there.

Here are a couple of articles if anyone cares to read them from him.

https://geauxpreps.com/home/monumental-decision-lhsaa-executive-committee-votes-to-restructure-playoffs-for-various-sports/https://geauxpreps.com/home/lhsaa-executive-committee-hears-appeals-on-wednesday-in-quest-to-level-playing-fields/






David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org







Yes sir. I have looked at their site before too. Thanks for the info. Like you said, there is no fix to make everything perfect. I just knew of the Louisiana thing from my cousin who coaches there. His team is in the semifinals this week. I had to ask him about select and non select and I just thought it pertains some to this current thread.

It will be interesting if something is done about 7A and how it may affect things or other classifications. We shall see. Thanks for all you do David
Go to Top of Page

powerlineman
Forum Member

37 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2022 :  20:38:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nah no need to split 7A. Just don?t see any need
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
AHSFHS.org Forums © 2007-09 AHSFHS.org Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.05 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.07