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Raiders
Starting Member
6 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2010 : 22:46:58
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Is there really any purpose to penalizing private schools by multiplying their enrollments by a factor that effectively punishes the growth of their programs by putting them in classification brackets with schools that actually do have larger student bodies and greater participation. For example, who honestly believes that new football programs will succeed at 3A and 4A levels of competition? Most private schools do not actively recruit because of strict academic entrance requirements. Besides, if a player does jump ship, they have to sit out a season anyway.
There really is no incentive to recruit. Unless a private school decides to dramatically increase their enrollment they cannot play, in a higher bracket, no matter how dominant they are at their current classification. 1A and 2A championships, regardless of how many achieved, will never be confused with 5A and 6A laurels.
Come on, it's time to right and wrong.
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dparker
Forum Admin
1485 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2010 : 23:55:01
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OK, I will play devil's advocate here. I don't think the private schools are being punished at all. Let's just say they are paying a tax for having a larger school zone than the public schools. Do I think private schools recruit? Not really. Well, not more than some public schools.
The fan base has jumped all over this recruiting topic when in reality it has nothing to do with the AHSAA's decision to go to a 1.35-to-1 ratio. Private schools as a rule do not recruit. They don't have to.
Think about it this way. Let's take a look at two Mobile school. I don't want to pick on any school so do not read between the lines. At Vigor, how many male students are eligible to participate in athletics? How many are eligible at St. Paul's? Vigor has no choice about who goes to school there but I assure you most every student at St. Paul's is eligible or their parents wouldn't be paying the tuition.
I am not beating up on the private schools. I just think the rule is effective and fair. Besides, if you look really close and took away the ratio some of the private schools would not change classifications anyway.
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org |
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Raiders
Starting Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 13:33:04
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David:
Thanks for responding. I'm not sure I totally accept your logic. However, we do agree that recruiting is not the issue, therefore, I think it would make for an interesting court challenge. |
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tidefan102
AHSFHS Moderator
792 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 15:58:06
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Just be thankful that Alabama hasn't done like Tennessee and put the pivate schools into as seperate class. Public and private don't compete against each other for the state championship. The same thing has been proposed in Alabama but hasn't received enough votes to pass.
Mike Naugher |
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Raiders
Starting Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 16:49:22
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Mike:
I just moved to Alabama from a region that did separate private and public schools. It is a major metropolitan area. Teams are free to schedule whomever they want to play for non-conference games.
The system worked. There was no restriction on recruiting or changing school systems, either. The discrepancies of enrollments between public and private schools was realized. Interestingly enough, the makeup of the private schools was often a limiting factor.-----coed schools having less boys to choose from, per class, than a single sex school.
These same leagues and classification are maintained throughout all seasons and all sports. The smaller, less competitive private schools were free to join an "Independent" league if they did not want to participate in an established private leagues.
My point is that the newer programs, or less competitive schools, could develop a program and not be bludgeoned to death in mismatches by schools with infinitely more players to choose from.
I think we can agree that football is the greatest ---- and letting as many kids compete to the best of their abilities is key. I'm not trying to sound touchy -feely ----- not every kid is going D1, D2 or even D3------ and it's not the end of the world. I'm fine with lumping public and private schools together. I don't care that some schools will always have better run programs and be more successful than others. If a school never wins a game, oh well. I just think private school enrollments should reflect actual numbers and not be inflated. That way the program "is what it is" and can at least say they tried. Hopefully, over time they become as competitive as they can.
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dparker
Forum Admin
1485 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 17:47:17
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There could be a book written on this subject. I think if you look at the real numbers it would make little difference if a private school went by a 1-to-1 ratio. The difference between being 3A or 4A in Alabama will not in itself determine whether a program is successful or not. There are just not enough difference in the enrollments to make a huge swing in a programs success. The same can be true for 1A and 2A or any other combination.
Now being pushed from 5A to 6a can be devastating to a program. The difference in enrollment from the top of 6A to the bottom is huge. The smallest 6A school has 744 students and the largest has 2,159. That is almost triple.
Meanwhile the smallest 3A school has 255 students and the largest 4A school has 424 students. To me that is not enough difference to matter that much. You could take the top 30 teams in 3A and most would win in 4A.
Also in Alabama public schools have clearly defined school districts that they draw from whereas private schools can draw from anywhere that someone is willing to drive to take their kids to school.
I am pretty sure I know which school you are talking about and I don't think if you dropped to 2A it would make that big of a difference in winning and losing. It is just tough to start a program and be successful. But, there are exceptions. (Spanish Fort)
To fully understand the reasons for the ratio to be in place you have to go back prior to 2002 and look at how the private schools were not playing on a level field across the state.
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org |
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Raiders
Starting Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 22:25:24
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David:
I agree. Dropping from 3A to 2A would not make much difference at first. This team will struggle. Perhaps my assumptions about 3A are incorrect. Having more students enrolled does not necessarily translate into more athletes to choose from for a particular team.
Of course, in a couple of years reclassification begins again. A potential jump to 4A, so soon for the program, could be fatal. We'll just have to wait and see.
Thanks for the good conversation. I think we have exhausted the topic. Hopefully, you can catch a game this season and tell me if the "1.35 tax" is still a valid scheme.
Take care. |
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svmounties
AHSFHS Moderator
1561 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 17:08:28
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I believe this was done mainly based on the success of Briarwood Christian and John Carroll Catholic at the time, specifically Briarwood football and John Carroll basketball.
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Shane Paschal
Shades Valley High School
Class of 1986
Go Mounties ! |
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dparker
Forum Admin
1485 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 17:41:49
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Shane, you are forgetting UMS-Wright and St. Paul's run in many sports including football. We focus on football but other sports were involved in the decision I am certain.
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org |
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svmounties
AHSFHS Moderator
1561 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 22:42:54
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True. I was remembering an article from up here around that time using Briarwood & John Carroll as examples. Moreso for Briarwood, because at that time they were dominating 3A football. The promotion hasn't really hurt them, though.
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Shane Paschal
Shades Valley High School
Class of 1986
Go Mounties ! |
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Topic |
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Private school classification
