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Bamajoe34
New Forum Member
19 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2019 : 08:36:48
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Good morning!
So my son plays at Pisgah. After Friday we are in a 3 way tie for 4th in our region with New Hope and Plainview. We beat Plainview, they beat New Hope and New Hope beat Pisgah. So we all beat each other.
We all beat Brindle Mountain as our other region win (all three teams are 2-4)
You guys correct me if I am wrong but I think it goes to non region opponents wins that you beat.
Example We beat Woodville which has 4 wins, Section 2 wins for a current total of 6 wins.
New Hope Beat Holly Pond who has 2 wins, Section with 2 wins current total of wins 4.
Plainview beat North Jackson who has 2 wins. So if I am using the right tiebreaker they are eliminated.
So unless new hope can tie or pass us in the last week are we in the playoff or did I miss a tiebreaker?
Thanks!
Go Eagles!! |
Edited by - Bamajoe34 on 10/28/2019 08:41:01 |
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dparker
Forum Admin
1403 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 10:24:52
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Do not take anything I say as gospel. I am taking a stab at this as I understand it.
I believe it goes to tiebreaker 'k' in the AHSAA handbook. New Hope and Pisgah both have two wins against non-region opponents and Plainview has one. If Pisgah defeats North Sand Mountain this week and New Hope defeats Coosa Christian, New Hope wins the tie breaker because they beat Pisgah.
The only way I see Pisgah getting in is if New Hope loses to Coosa Christian which is not likely and Pisgah beats North Sand Mountain.
I do not think it goes to the tiebreaker where you would count points for non-region victories.
This is how I understand it. But I have been wrong in the past. It is difficult to understand the tiebreakers.
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org |
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spartan91
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 12:09:12
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This is the was I read it but I could be wrong also. It goes to tiebreaker (i) not (k). Tiebreaker (k) looks at common non region opponents. None of the 3 teams involved played the same teams out of region.
Tiebreaker (i) only counts non regions wins for in class opponents or above.
Pisgah played no non regions opponents at 3A or above, so 0 for them.
Plainview defeated North Jackson (4A) which has 2 wins and play Crossville (5A) which has 1 win. So 2 for them with a possibility of 3 or 4 if North Jackson defeats Arab.
New Hope's only non region win in or above 3A was against Holly Pond (3A) which has 2 wins with a possibily of 3 if they defeat Fairview.
This would eliminate Pisgah no matter what.
If Plainview wins they would be in because their wins over non region opponents at 3A or above would be 3 with the possibility of 4 if North Jackson defeats Arab and they hold the head to head tiebreaker over New Hope.
If Plainview loses and North Jackson loses and Holly Pond defeats Fairview then New Hope would get in by having defeated non region opponents at 3A or obove with 3 wins as opposed to Plainview's 2.
If Plainview loses and Fairview defeats Holly Pond then Plainview and New Hope would have both defeated non region opponents at 3A or obove with 2 win and then Plainview would have the head to head tiebreaker over New Hope.
If Plainvew loses and Fairview defeats Holly Pond but North Jackson defeated Arab, then Plainview would get in since their defeated non region common opponents at 3A or above would be 4 and New Hope's would be only 3. |
Edited by - spartan91 on 10/28/2019 12:18:27 |
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dparker
Forum Admin
1403 Posts |
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BamaJoe
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
275 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 12:59:47
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quote:
Originally posted by dparker
Spartan are you looking at the 2019 AHSAA football Handbook?
http://ahsaa.com/Portals/0/Publications/2019-20/71649%20footballweb.pdf?ver=2019-07-25-083130-690
The tiebreaker you mention I think was from previous years and has been changed. Am I correct?
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org
I was looking at his post and the handbook and trying for find that and I couldn't find it. (i)talks about the #7 team from your region. Plus both Pisgah and New Hope played Section.
I really hope it does end up falling to L for my sons sake but like I told him and his buddies they shouldn't have left it up to a dang tiebreaker. You would think if it ended at K they would already have new hope penciled in because the last game wouldn't matter. Because we both beat Section and they beat us head to head.
This stuff is confusing and fun all at the same time! 
Go Eagles! |
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BamaJoe
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
275 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 13:17:15
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The reason I thought it was L was that a couple years ago when we were at East Limestone we missed the playoffs in a similar situation.
East, Russellville and Lawrence County all tied for 4th. East beat LC but lost to Russellville who lost to LC. LC got the playoff because they had more non region wins over teams either larger than them or no more than two below. East only had 4 wins to count west limestone. We beat Tanner but their wins did not help us because they were 2a and more than two classes below East. LC only had 1 non region win over west point who had 6 wins so that put them in the playoffs ahead of us even though we beat them in region play. Once again we shouldn't have left it up to a tiebreaker. |
Edited by - BamaJoe on 10/28/2019 13:18:25 |
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
624 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 14:13:18
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(K) Is non required common opponents. Pisgah, Plainview and New Hope do not share a non required common opponent between them all.
So then it goes to (L) which is the total victories of the teams defeated non region, within class, above class, or within two classes below. So in this scenario.
New Hope - Has defeated Holly Pond (Same Class) and Section (within two classes below) Those teams have combined for 4 total wins.
Both play this next week Holly Pond vs. Fairview/Section vs. Woodville. If they both win, that will push the New Hope Total to 6.
New Hope can also gain another point by defeating Coosa Christian (within 2 classes below).
Max, New Hope can come out with is 7 points. I'd say they look really good for 5, maybe 6 (if section beats woodville) but don't really see Holly Pond defeating Fairview.
Pisgah - Pisgah currently has 4 points for Woodvilles 4 wins and 2 for Sections wins. Pisgah will earn at least one more point this week as Woodville will play Section. So we know they will at least be 7. They can also earn an additional 6 if they were to beat NSM (I don't know how likely that is.)
Plainview - Plainview currently has 2 points for defeating NJHS who only has two wins on the season. They can earn another point if NJHS upsets Arab (unlikely) and can earn an additional 1 point for defeating Crossville.
All that being said right now
New Hope 4 (possibility of 7)
Pisgah 7 (possibility of 13)
Plainview 2 (possiblity of 4)
All that to say Plainview is pretty much eliminated at this point and Pisgah is in the catbird seat. New Hope has to have everything go right (Have Section win, defeat coosa, and have holly pond to pull an upset then hope Pisgah loses to NSM.
THen I would assume if they tied at 7 points apiece, it would revert to head to head and New Hope gets that. But that's a hell of a way to get there. They are gonna need all HOPE they can get (see what I did there?)
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Edited by - TheMUBM on 10/28/2019 14:15:43 |
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BamaJoe
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
275 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 14:48:20
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quote:
Originally posted by TheMUBM
(K) Is non required common opponents. Pisgah, Plainview and New Hope do not share a non required common opponent between them all.
So then it goes to (L) which is the total victories of the teams defeated non region, within class, above class, or within two classes below. So in this scenario.
New Hope - Has defeated Holly Pond (Same Class) and Section (within two classes below) Those teams have combined for 4 total wins.
Both play this next week Holly Pond vs. Fairview/Section vs. Woodville. If they both win, that will push the New Hope Total to 6.
New Hope can also gain another point by defeating Coosa Christian (within 2 classes below).
Max, New Hope can come out with is 7 points. I'd say they look really good for 5, maybe 6 (if section beats woodville) but don't really see Holly Pond defeating Fairview.
Pisgah - Pisgah currently has 4 points for Woodvilles 4 wins and 2 for Sections wins. Pisgah will earn at least one more point this week as Woodville will play Section. So we know they will at least be 7. They can also earn an additional 6 if they were to beat NSM (I don't know how likely that is.)
Plainview - Plainview currently has 2 points for defeating NJHS who only has two wins on the season. They can earn another point if NJHS upsets Arab (unlikely) and can earn an additional 1 point for defeating Crossville.
All that being said right now
New Hope 4 (possibility of 7)
Pisgah 7 (possibility of 13)
Plainview 2 (possiblity of 4)
All that to say Plainview is pretty much eliminated at this point and Pisgah is in the catbird seat. New Hope has to have everything go right (Have Section win, defeat coosa, and have holly pond to pull an upset then hope Pisgah loses to NSM.
THen I would assume if they tied at 7 points apiece, it would revert to head to head and New Hope gets that. But that's a hell of a way to get there. They are gonna need all HOPE they can get (see what I did there?)
That's what I thought to. Also we need a "like" button
Go Eagles! |
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svmounties
AHSFHS Moderator
1561 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 20:04:49
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If everything TheMUBM said is correct, then it does put it back into Pisgah's hands. They just go out and beat NSM and they control their own fate. At least they have a good chance to get in, win or lose. Good luck!
________________________________________________________________________
Shane Paschal
Shades Valley High School
Class of 1986
Go Mounties ! |
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dparker
Forum Admin
1403 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 20:18:25
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As anyone who knows me will attest, I usually side with the AHSAA on almost every issue or debate. But, if they could get back the $10,000 or whatever they paid some law firm to write these tiebreakers, I do believe a reasonably smart person could come up with five or six tiebreakers anyone could comprehend and know what was going on.
It must be hell for a coach wondering if they are in or out and what they need to do to get in. I suppose the only thing they can do is just win and hope for the best. The AHSAA tiebreakers are actually not that complicated, there are just so many of them that it is easy to miss one and get confused about which one applies to each case.
David Parker
Administrator
AHSFHS.org |
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
624 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 20:48:35
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Here is the real problem with the tie breaker rules section M through P.
As you will see N is the same rule as M only without the "If all the teams play an equal number of games"
So basically you look at M and say "Ok, have all teams played an equal number of games? If yes, then we calculate defeated opponents wins. If no, then we go to N and wait... we calculate defeated opponent wins"
It would be like me saying that I have 2 rules. Rule 1.) if I give you more than 10 m & m?s eat the green ones first. Rule 2.). If I give you 10 or less eat the green ones first.
This could be one rule that just says ?eat the green ones first?
So really those rules are redundant. Same redundancy for O and P
m) The team whose defeated opponents have the most victories if all teams involved in the tie
play an equal number of games.
If two teams tie for the highest winning percentage ahead of all the other teams involved
in the tie, the team that defeated the other in their required regular season game will be placed
ahead of all tied teams. Then, if necessary, apply (a) or (b) as applicable for the remaining
teams in the tie.
n) The team whose defeated opponents have the most victories.
If two teams tie for the highest winning percentage ahead of all the other teams involved
in the tie, the team that defeated the other in their required regular season game will be placed
ahead of all tied teams. Then, if necessary, apply (a) or (b) as applicable for the remaining
teams in the tie.
o) The team with the most victories if all teams involved in the tie play an equal number of
games.
If two teams tie for the highest winning percentage ahead of all the other teams involved
in the tie, the team that defeated the other in their required regular season game will be placed
ahead of all tied teams. Then, if necessary, apply (a) or (b) as applicable for the remaining
teams in the tie.
p) The team with the most victories.
If two teams tie for the highest winning percentage ahead of all the other teams involved
in the tie, the team that defeated the other in their required regular season game will be placed
ahead of all tied teams. Then, if necessary, apply (a) or (b) as applicable for the remaining
teams in the tie.
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Edited by - TheMUBM on 10/28/2019 21:35:02 |
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cwak
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
1273 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 21:34:46
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| If you squint you can kinda see what they're going for. Eliminating teams if they don't meet the requirements going to the tiebreaker for the next number of teams still tied. The problem is there is no explanation of any of this. Personal beef; unequal number of games should be higher and should apply to two teams not jus 3 or more teams and be the first tiebreaker. |
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
624 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2019 : 21:38:37
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| But the teams don?t have to meet those requirements. As in the case with some of the other regions. Like you have wadley billingsley and victory Christian all tied. But the teams don?t have the same number of games so m is passed up for n yet n is based on the same information as m. It just screams to me of some lawyer totally putting in as many words as possible. |
Edited by - TheMUBM on 10/28/2019 21:39:52 |
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spartan91
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
202 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2019 : 19:06:16
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Yes, David apparently I was looking at the tiebreaker system before they changed tiebreaker L to include victories over 2 classes or below, which in the case of 3A would be all classes.
I would agree that in this case Pisgah would have the advantage. But New Hope would have an outside shot if both Holly Pond and Section win this week in addition to New Hope defeating Coosa Christian.
If you have twitter, Joxpreps gives a nice explantion of this in their 3A bracketology post. |
Edited by - spartan91 on 10/29/2019 19:11:19 |
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
624 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2019 : 19:15:43
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| If Pisgah wins it doesn?t matter what new hope does. Best way to eliminate doubt is to remove it. |
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BamaJoe
AHSFHS Forum Superstar
275 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2019 : 10:36:11
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quote:
Originally posted by TheMUBM
If Pisgah wins it doesn?t matter what new hope does. Best way to eliminate doubt is to remove it.
That's what I told them.
Go Eagles! |
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Bamajoe34
New Forum Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2019 : 08:57:58
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quote:
Originally posted by BamaJoe
quote:
Originally posted by TheMUBM
If Pisgah wins it doesn?t matter what new hope does. Best way to eliminate doubt is to remove it.
That's what I told them.
Go Eagles!
Well, we made it in.....But it wasn?t for lack of trying. The most undisciplined football team I have ever seen.
Go Eagles!! |
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TheMUBM
AHSFHS Moderator
624 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2019 : 13:31:29
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| At least they made it. A lot of teams cannot say that. Good luck in playoffs. I have not seen who you guys play yet but being a four seed I am sure it is a tough one |
Edited by - TheMUBM on 11/02/2019 13:33:30 |
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Tiebreaker help
